tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post1732069247930126557..comments2024-01-09T05:19:39.331-05:00Comments on Ghostrunner on First: The Keys to the Golden CityDrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-9646207814598091992009-11-26T00:12:00.862-05:002009-11-26T00:12:00.862-05:00Yeah, "the attendance goes up" comment w...Yeah, "the attendance goes up" comment was directed at that other report, not this post. Your analysis of the data presented was fair, and I didn't think in bad faith, it just seemed like attendance % wasn't telling the whole story, and I didn't see why you neglected the attendance and capacity numbers themselves. But I do now.Andréhttp://paorta.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-91155012454215768072009-11-25T13:31:14.853-05:002009-11-25T13:31:14.853-05:00I think what I'm saying here Andre is it doesn...I think what I'm saying here Andre is it doesn't always go up, in fact it often goes down in some places. As listed above, the Marlins, A's, and Rays cut down the number of seats they sell yet still all struggle to half-fill their buildings. Despite their teams being successful on and off over the decade. <br /><br />The Marlins and A's have to operate on shoestring budgets because the baseball appetite, for their brand of ball, just isn't there. No amount of wins or playoff berths will create a larger fanbase in those markets.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-71169783101592097752009-11-25T13:24:54.259-05:002009-11-25T13:24:54.259-05:00So, for arguement's sake, here is the list of ...So, for arguement's sake, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_stadiums#Current_stadiums" rel="nofollow">here is the list of stadium capacities.</a> <br /><br />The Jays are fifth highest at 49000, but the sixth lowest is 40000. Of the "smaller" stadiums, three of them are larger facilities that simply don't attempt to sell the bulk of their tickets. <br /><br />The average (mean) capacity is 43772. So the Jays are above average but not by much. I don't think it's a big difference when using attendance %.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-86393471032467609042009-11-25T12:28:17.817-05:002009-11-25T12:28:17.817-05:00Drew-how you keep putting out such high quality an...Drew-how you keep putting out such high quality and truly interesting posts in the offseason is amazing. Awesome post.Mattthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16945030075122490090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-49829195327330637902009-11-25T00:59:26.106-05:002009-11-25T00:59:26.106-05:00Oh, weird. Somehow I missed that second paragraph....Oh, weird. Somehow I missed that second paragraph. I thought the average capacity was more along the lines of 30-40,000. If it's 42-50 then you're right, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference.Andréhttp://paorta.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-72930067685224108732009-11-25T00:54:43.977-05:002009-11-25T00:54:43.977-05:00I don't understand how it comes "out in t...I don't understand how it comes "out in the wash". It doesn't. I guess I've never been to the Rogers Centre on the days when it's only a 30,000 capacity stadium? <br /><br />I think the attendance, rather than the winning percentage--or <i>with</i> the winning percentage, or averaged somehow--would give you a much better picture of the story. Unless every stadium in the league has ticket pricing exactly relative to its size? <br /><br />Otherwise looking at this data kind of reminds me of skimming that "report" on getting a grass-field baseball stadium in Toronto ("Attendance goes up! It only goes up! Attendance only goes up!!!").Andréhttp://paorta.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-17550333203694187552009-11-24T23:23:02.143-05:002009-11-24T23:23:02.143-05:00Amazingly well-thought-out post here, hats off to ...Amazingly well-thought-out post here, hats off to you!Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17881544159774670591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-72004788146691541432009-11-24T20:46:24.536-05:002009-11-24T20:46:24.536-05:00Yes it is, just as 100% of 30000 is the same as 60...Yes it is, just as 100% of 30000 is the same as 60% of 50000. So it comes out in the wash. Mostly. <br /><br />I fully comes out in the wash when you realize only two parks are small like we're discussing here. And those two teams could fill 70000 seat places if need be. Nearly every other park is in the 42 to 50 thousand range (I didn't check but I will)Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-5677732536564941032009-11-24T19:56:37.329-05:002009-11-24T19:56:37.329-05:00Wouldn't the percentage of total seats sold be...Wouldn't the percentage of total seats sold be affected by the total number of seats available? 25% of 50,000 is more than 25% of 30,000.Mike Wilnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-31581414645032937722009-11-24T16:32:44.727-05:002009-11-24T16:32:44.727-05:00Thanks Drew! It's amazing what a World Series ...Thanks Drew! It's amazing what a World Series appearance will do for ticket sales for a couple years in the case of the Tigers. I wonder what will happen with them next year? Probably the same if not less than 2009 ... that's what happens when you lose a one-game playoff!Ian Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01074587524873409802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-58400275331663632762009-11-24T15:51:09.731-05:002009-11-24T15:51:09.731-05:00The White Sox were like the Jays in the first half...The White Sox were like the Jays in the first half of the decade, they plodded along without much change in their stakes. Then the World Series and they saw a huge jump in tickets, only to see it quickly slide. <br /><br />The Tigers are opposite, they sell tickets independent of the team's success. The % sold went up as their win % went down. <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FFYtG9eHkTQ/SwxG4KMhQaI/AAAAAAAAAh4/HXPGEHEkpHM/s1600/Tigers.PNG" rel="nofollow">Check it out</a>Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-55844109083945030452009-11-24T15:21:04.908-05:002009-11-24T15:21:04.908-05:00You've outdone yourself once again, Drew. Well...You've outdone yourself once again, Drew. Well done, sir.<br /><br />I'm sure it's somewhere amongst the maelstrom of stats, but I'd be interested to see how attendance numbers correlate in regards to teams who suddenly transform into winners (I'm thinking specifically about the 2005 White Sox and the 2006 Tigers).Ian Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01074587524873409802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-8759143391390171132009-11-24T15:08:11.437-05:002009-11-24T15:08:11.437-05:00No matter how big your stadium, if you're incr...No matter how big your stadium, if you're increasing interest in your team you're going to increase the number of seats you sell. <br /><br />The Jays look bad because they don't sell many tickets, big stadium notwithstanding. The extra seats sold on days when its full might mitigate the overall low percentage, no? <br /><br /><i>they suffer from having a stadium way too big for their needs (at the moment - a winning team and the needs could change rapidly)</i><br /><br />That's just it. The stadium is too big for the team and the baseball appetite in this town. I don't know that winning will really make that much of a difference.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-89424135640532088122009-11-24T14:35:40.311-05:002009-11-24T14:35:40.311-05:00"For comparing apples to oranges, % evens it ..."For comparing apples to oranges, % evens it out. I think." - i'd disagree. suppose the jays played in a 25000 capacity stadium. they'd easily fill it for big games (bosox, yanks), and have a decent crowd at most others (say 15-20000 - a drop may be expected as ticket prices may be higher?), which would give a very high percentage. <br /><br />they suffer from having a stadium way too big for their needs (at the moment - a winning team and the needs could change rapidly).<br /><br />boston sell out forever, cos their stadium is too small for the demand. would they sell out the rogers centre every day? probably, but it's still a point to consider. the jays look bad cos the stadium is so bigbtchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613280601665967930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-79591555614758448562009-11-24T13:52:01.629-05:002009-11-24T13:52:01.629-05:00Yeah, less supply could increase the demand or wha...Yeah, less supply could increase the demand or whatever. <br /><br />For comparing apples to oranges, % evens it out. I think.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-86710032115507579652009-11-24T13:47:30.900-05:002009-11-24T13:47:30.900-05:00This is interesting. I'm not sure it is easy t...This is interesting. I'm not sure it is easy to just use % of tickets sold, as some stadiums have a considerably different capacity (ie Wrigley holds 10000 less people than Rogers Centre and 15000 less than the Metrodome). Just a thought of something else to consider.....Mike Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-73421931100438321962009-11-24T13:29:36.109-05:002009-11-24T13:29:36.109-05:00Thanks Dmac. The Phillies attendance really shot ...Thanks Dmac. The Phillies attendance really shot up after 2007, and stayed that way. Prolonging success as they have is the best way to build a baseball city, which Philly certainly is right now.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07271534213351978408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-747236263452087289.post-50468872540613331752009-11-24T13:27:58.158-05:002009-11-24T13:27:58.158-05:00Neat info, Drew. I always thought the reason the P...Neat info, Drew. I always thought the reason the Phillies went on a spending spree after the 2002 season -- signing Jim Thome and David Bell, attempting to sign Tom Glavine -- was because they saw what happened in Pittsburgh: The fans only came out to the new stadium for a season, then attendance dipped. <br /><br />Now how David Bell was part of a spending spree, I don't know.dmachttp://philadelphiawilldo.com/noreply@blogger.com