Great team win today!!Long flight to Beantown now
— Jose Bautista(@JoeyBats19) April 14, 2011
Remember that time you hated Kevin Youkilis? Yeah, me too. EVERYBODY hates Kevin Youkilis, what with his douchey batting stance, constant dialog with umpires, and multi-positional annual excellence.
Hating Youkilis is hardly unique. See, even his teammates used to hate Yook. They hated the way he'd slam his bat and bark like a dog on barbiturates whenever things didn't go his way, no matter the score. It got to the point that his Red Sox teammates spoke to him about it.
Then it continued. So Manny popped him in the chin in the dugout. Because Manny's awesome. And Youkilis is a detestable douchebag.
Because the one thing that seems unanimous - from post-game quotes to quick deference to the contributions of teammates - is big leaguers are out to win. That's what they want to do: win.
When asked about the game or his own ability to clout home runs, Jose Bautista reflexively brings the conversation back to the team and the team's performance. He's a Leader, that's what they do. What leaders do not do, however, is slam their bat and curse about their at bat when they're winning by 7 runs.
Was John Danks obviously irritated with his own performance, thus lashing out at the One Man Gang? Of course. But that doesn't really "make it okay." If it were any other guy on the team, I have a strong inkling Jose himself would pull the offending player aside for a quick conversation about respecting the opposition.
I'm all for swagger and showing emotion on the field, I'm just so strongly in the "don't do what Youkilis does" camp that I can't abide this isolated incident.
It did, however, give rise to this. At least some good came from this ugly episode.
It doesn't much bother me. I'm terrible at baseball, but when I strike out or make crappy contact (which is more often than I'd like to admit) I tend to curse at myself too.
ReplyDeleteYou are comparing a singular incident to an entire career of douchbagedness? Give me a break!
ReplyDeleteWhat part of "isolated incident" suggests otherwise?
ReplyDeleteYep. Shouldn't have slammed his bat. We'd love Ricky Romero for 'calling' Youkilis on his antics - if roles reversed.
ReplyDeleteTribalism lives!
A simple "no comment" from Danks after the game would have been best. Keep it on the field, clown.
ReplyDeleteCan't say I disagree with that.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting how perception of a player can lead to confirmation bias. Halladay is universally accepted as one of the greatest competitors in the game; a player driven to perfection on every pitch and one not exactly shy in demonstrating when he isn't impressed with his own performance. Because this fits his accepted perception he is applauded for this intensity. Conversely, Vernon Wells has been excoriated his entire career for his stoic approach, which seems to confirm for many his lack of intensity and drive for excellence. I guess if the narrative fits it must be true.
ReplyDeleteAs for Jose, I have no problem with his actions and want him engaged in every at-bat. If Danks doesn't like it, he should stop throwing BP and stay in games long enough to do something about it beyond yelling at Jose and crying to the media. Last I checked this isn't Little League.
I agree with Brad. The quest for excellence at the plate should not be reserved for times when you're losing or tied. Why should your performance matter only matter when you're losing?!
ReplyDeleteIt isn't about disengaging when your leading. It is about that line between team and personal achievement.
ReplyDeleteThe team is the ultimate goal, or so we're told over and over and over and over. If the team is winning (handily), how can he be so angry?
Do you think that a team has never come back from a 7 run deficit?
ReplyDeleteWhat does that have to do with anything, honestly? I don't think I suggested "stop trying to score runs", did I?
ReplyDeleteWell, if you are trying to score runs and you fail then you will be a bit upset about it.
ReplyDeleteI find it hard to criticize any player's personal drive for excellence. Interpreting a batter's dissatisfaction with his own performance at the plate as a slight against the opposing pitcher seems like a distortion.
ReplyDeleteI guess I wasn't clear in my post - my "issue" isn't with showing up the pitcher as much as putting personal performance above that of the team, as it runs contrary to the codified team-first message we constantly hear.
ReplyDeleteI reject your assumption that he's putting personal performance above the team.
ReplyDeleteThe team is winning by 7 runs, we're told that trumps the outcome of any one of his at bats.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that a team has never come back from a 7 run deficit?
ReplyDeleteAgain, not the point. Please do continue to miss it, if you please.
ReplyDeleteIsn't the performance of the team just the sum of individual performances?
ReplyDeleteYou're all kinds of wrong Drew. If Bautista had barreled that 3-2 meatball up and then done a sosa hop or any other kind of grandstanding, then i'd agree with Danks. Jose was just showing a high compete level in a low leverage situation certainly not showing the pitcher up, i'll take that every day of the week even from a ginger viking boston fuck like Youkilis.
ReplyDeleteI understand the point that you are making Drew but I just don't see what individual accomplishment he would be striving for in that situation that would supersede the good of the team. It is not like Bautista was swinging for the fences to reach some arbitrary milestone or had dropped some vintage John Lackey quotes about Danks before the game and was embarrassed to pop out against someone that "everyone" has had success against. Maybe it is the hockey player in me, but play to the whistle is something that was ingrained deeply into my competitive fabric making me very wary of the unwritten rules of Baseball Etiquette.
ReplyDeleteSo he's supposed to not care when he fucks up? then the next inning romero lays an egg and chicago scores 7 runs?
ReplyDeleteI really don't see your point because you are contradicting yourself.
you acknowledged the following
1. Jays are winning.
2. Because a team can always come back in baseball, each at bat is important no matter what the score is.
3. JB made a mistake and got angry.
You can't pull anything from that to infer that he only cares about himself or some shit like that. What you're doing is the same thing that Damian Cox did.
If he were pissed that he got walked then you might have a point.
It's in the moment. He's in the moment. If Jose is that capable of distancing himself within the two seconds after such deep focus that he brings to every AB, than he's inhuman. I don't give a shit what the score is, I want our guys up playing hard every AB, running out every ball. Good grief, have you ever fucking played a sport? It isn't slow pitch. If Danks doesn't like it he should stop throwing fucking BP (I agree with the earlier comment about that) He's making millions of dollars. He needs to shut the fuck up and make good pitches. I can't believe Jose is getting criticized by his own team's fans for fucking playing hard. And don't tell me that he should knkow the big picture. Or that it's about "team." It isn't a fucking interview! What, should he be repeating a certain mantra when he goes to the plate depending on the fucking score? What's next, not swinging when you're up 10? Like your site, Drew, but holy shit, think you missed this one...
ReplyDeleteThe only thing this post is about, or what I've argued in the comments, is 3.
ReplyDeleteI'll say this and probably be done with it: do you think he'll do it again?
Do you think that if it's JPA in the same situation with the same reaction, we don't see Jose with an arm around him in the dugout while Buck and Tabby drone on about "the right way to play the game?"
I don't think we'll see Bautista act quite the same if the situation arises again. That's it. He made a mistake, it isn't an indictment of him as a player or man.
I think Jose did nothing wrong, many players do the same thing. You want to make great contact every time and when you don't, it's frustrating. Who cares about the score of the game, players are paid on stats now a days and every at bat counts. Danks should be happy he got the out and shut his mouth. Too bad it's not hockey, they could drop the gloves and settle it without a suspension.
ReplyDeleteToo bad it's not hockey, they could drop the gloves and settle it without a suspension
ReplyDeleteAwesome. Best comment in a while.
drew...out of 8000 comments ive read now...including many from Wsox fans, you are the 2nd one to bash bautista...maybe youre the 1 not getting it?
ReplyDeleteI understand Dinks being mad....but Bautista has every right to be frustated with his craft as well...Bautista being pissed has nothing to do with Dinks
Before this gets out of hand please: 1) indicate where I "bashed" Bautista and
ReplyDelete2) indicate where I implicated Danks in any way.
Thanks.
I am a teacher and the behavior by both warrants attention. In Danks' case, however, it was perhaps a perceived slight, or maybe, as we all learned in elementary school, "acting out" on Bautista's part. We teach children NOT to do this when they are angry. Imagine I am a straight "A" student and receive a "B" on a major test. Do I run up to the teacher and object strenuously (luckily having no bat) or wait and talk to the teacher after class? Maybe Bautista was really mad because Danks, not a great pitcher, got him to do the second worst thing a batter could have done...infield pop-up (Would he have thrown the bat if he struck out?) In any case, "acting out" is not appropriate behavior for anyone, let alone adult leaders. The appropriate action here is for Bautista to apologize to the fans for being childish, and for Danks to apologize to Bautista for saying things that might escalate the situation. Good things these guys were not on steroids?
ReplyDeleteuse whatever word you want, whether it be "bash" or condemn or whatever...you are clearly saying that Bautista made a mistake...
ReplyDeleteIcant understand how u can say Bautista did anything wrong...if anything, Id want a kid to see this scenario...go at it 100%, at all times...if youre gonna do something, do it right...never half-ass anything
In sports, especially pro sports, I love to see passion like Bautista's...I kind of like Dinks' passion too, even though hes wrong in directing it at Bautista.
But again, is Bautista supposed to feel sorry for him...this isnt little league with a mercy rule
Would you say you "bashed" me in your comments? I wouldn't. You disagree, which is cool.
ReplyDeleteIn sports, especially pro sports, I love to see passion like Bautista's
The key word here is "pro". These guys are professionals and, as such, expected to comport themselves in a certain fashion. The season is long and they're all on the other side of beatings at one point or another.
You're right Drew. But I'm with Navin: Danks should leave it on the field. I can understand Danks' point (not to mention he's had a frustrating season) but he looks as much a clown to me for harping on it afterwards. Move on and pitch better next time.
ReplyDeletei respectfully disagree drew...everyone sees things different i guess
ReplyDeletei just dont see how throwing a bat is that bad...theres alot worse behaviour on the fields every night...from managers freaking on umps...to guys getting intentionally hit...pitchers punching the wall in the dugout in frustration...guys breaking bats over their knees, etc
I personally like seeing the "pros" show this emotion....shows that even they get frustrated and want to get better
good discussion though..thank you
The passion is not the problem, the timing is. Part of the game of baseball, and do not compare to any other sports it is a completely seperate set of unspoken rules, is that when an opponent is getting beat handidly you do not make a scene or draw attention to your failure. When this happens words get exchanged because, although the scene is not aimed at Danks, it adds fuel to the fire of his failure and humiliation. In addition Jose fails 65% of the time, he should never settle for failure, but should know how to except it. It is part of baseball unlike any other sport, you must be able to accept and deal with failure differently than athletes who play basketball or football. 162 games is a lot if he threw a tantrum everytime he failed and he definately would never through a tantrum everytime it occurred. Like I said at the beginning, the issue is not passion, however it all is about the timing.
ReplyDelete